Terence on CompuServe
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1993 17:41:33
(1-7,Rilla) Roger, will you introduce Terence? BTW... welcome Terence!
(1-7,Rilla) It is great to have you...
(1-7,Rilla) here with us in the New Age Forum! Roger, ga
(1-9,Roger) Sure...
(1-9,Roger) I have been working with Terence for about the...
(1-9,Roger) last six months on the MAcintosh version of...
(1-9,Roger) Timewave Zero. This was my first introduction to a ...
(1-9,Roger) man that I have since grown to admire very much for his...
(1-9,Roger) edge of the universe train of thought and suprisingly...
(1-9,Roger) surprisingly...
(1-9,Roger) lucid thinking. If you have read The Archaic Revival...
(1-9,Roger) you have some idea of what I'm refering to -- if not stay ...
(1-9,Roger) tuned -- you're in for a great ride... Here's Terence... ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay, Terence? An introductory statement?
(1-9,Terence) Not really, I guess that my rep...
(1-9,Terence) has been based on a willingness to defind...
(1-9,Terence) the psychedelic experience and to take seriously...
(1-9,Terence) the sorts of ideas that one can bring back from over ...
(1-9,Terence) the mental edge ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay, Mehran ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) Concering the nat concerinh the nature of soma...
(1-1,mehran ariani) Aghori Vimalanda of india claims...
(1-1,mehran ariani) that soma is a type of leafless crthat soma is a type of...
(1-1,mehran ariani) leafless creeper and...
(1-1,mehran ariani) most people think it is amanita..
(1-1,mehran ariani) and only rishis (seer) know...
(1-1,mehran ariani) the true identity of soma.ga
(1-9,Terence) Recently there has been some progress on this question...
(1-9,Terence) The book to take a look at is by david Schwartz...
(1-9,Terence) and Flattery, it is called haoma and harmaline...
(1-9,Terence) and is Near Eastern Studies Publication #23...
(1-9,Terence) from UC Press. What is suggested there, based...
(1-25,Don D) ?
(1-9,Terence) on the Avestan literature of the Zoroasterian...
(1-9,Terence) Religion is that probably the Giant Syrian Rue...
(1-9,Terence) Pergamum harmala could, by itself have served...
(1-9,Terence) as the basis for Soma. The Amanita theory is now...
(1-9,Terence) in disfoavor for anumber of reasons. ...
(1-9,Terence) Amanita is hard to become reliably intoxicated on and is rare even where it does occur ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) thank you i wait...
(1-7,Rilla) okay, Don ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) for someone else to ask for now.not for now thank you terence.ga
(1-25,Don D) Terrance, I am unfamiliar with you work at this point...
(1-25,Don D) However, I would like to know if you have studied...
(1-25,Don D) the relation between LSD experiences and occult claims...
(1-25,Don D) to psychic abilities. What I am getting at is...
(1-25,Don D) that both are very similar. ga
(1-9,Terence) Yes, you are quite right. Stan Grof makes this...
(1-9,Terence) point in several of his books. It does seems as though...
(1-9,Terence) there is something about the psychedelic...
(1-9,Terence) experience that lowers the threshold to sychronistic...
(1-9,Terence) events, or some psychic or mental factor that makes...
(1-9,Terence) unusualy events and encounters more lilely...
(1-9,Terence) in those times when a person is intoicated...
(1-9,Terence) I believe that this is related to the fact that...
(1-6,David Cole) ?
(1-9,Terence) the world is actually somehow make of language...
(1-9,Terence) and that this normally supprssed state of affaris is...
(1-9,Terence) more noticable during psychedelic experiences ga
(1-7,Rilla) Don? A follow up?
(1-25,Don D) Yes...
(1-25,Don D) Terrence, I would suggest that, first, knowing that...
(1-25,Don D) occult/yoga theory is very well established...
(1-25,Don D) and second, that LSD is a physiochemical event...
(1-25,Don D) that, through the LSD experience we can come to...
(1-25,Don D) develop a potentially very precise understanding...
(1-25,Don D) of the mechanisms of psychic abilities...
(1-25,Don D) More precisesly, I believe that LSD and similar substances...
(1-25,Don D) trigger off the kundalini energy in a spontaneous...
(1-25,Don D) and uncontrolable fashion, and that this type of...
(1-25,Don D) explanatory framework can go far to explain many...
(1-13,Dean) ?
(1-25,Don D) so-called psychic type phenomena that are currently...
(1-25,Don D) unexplainable within accepted academic frameworks...
(1-25,Don D) A quick plug here, but I have a file called HALLUCIN.DOC...
(1-25,Don D) in this forum that elaborates such a line of thought. ga
(1-9,Terence) Well, if has always seemed to me that one of the great...
(1-9,Terence) loses that we suffered when psychedelics were...
(1-9,Terence) made illegal was the opportunity to understand...
(1-9,Terence) the relation of these states of mind to Calssical yogic and mystical...
(1-9,Terence) states. Even the Yogic Sutras of Patanjali...
(1-9,Terence) early second century text on yoga...
(1-9,Terence) speaks of the magical and transforming power...
(1-9,Terence) of life giving herbs. The fact is that the window...
(1-9,Terence) of opportunity was simply to narrow to allow...
(1-9,Terence) us to properly study the potential of psychedelics..
(1-9,Terence) before they were make illegal ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay...David GA
(1-6,David Cole) Terence, could you comment on the...
(1-6,David Cole) relationship between increasing...
(1-6,David Cole) global information flow (bandwidth)...
(1-6,David Cole) and the Timewave. ga
(1-9,Terence) Well the Timewave is a graphic method of portraying...
(1-9,Terence) the evolution of complexity in time. One wwy to think...
(1-1,mehran ariani) ?
(1-9,Terence) of complexity is as denity of connectefness...
(1-9,Terence) You know it was McLuhan who actually belived that...the age of electricity marked ...
(1-9,Terence) the descent of the Holy Ghost. For McLuhan...
(1-9,Terence) the global information net of electrical energey...
(1-9,Terence) was actually a kind of metaphysical event of some...
(1-9,Terence) sort ga
(1-7,Rilla) David? Follow up?
(1-6,David Cole) Thanks, no followup. ga
(1-7,Rilla) Dean GA
(1-13,Dean) In modern society, "tribes" seem to be defined more ...
(1-13,Dean) by friendship and like-mindedness than proximity & family ...
(1-13,Dean) ties -- being linked together by fast communication and (1-13,Dean) fast transportation. What do you feel is the ...
(1-13,Dean) role of the modern shaman to his or her "tribe".
(1-13,Dean) ga
(1-9,Terence) The shaman has pretty much the same function in...
(1-9,Terence) all times and places; that of a go-between, someone...
(1-9,Terence) who can actually leave behind the conventions of...
(1-9,Terence) the group, the conventionalized linguistic space...
(1-18,Chris) ?
(1-9,Terence) and journey instead into the supramundane world...
(1-9,Terence) a kind of hyperspace where "real" power is available...
(1-9,Terence) I see the modern shaman as fulfilling that same function...
(1-9,Terence) the world is not yet so well understood that we ...
(1-12,Steve Gorney) ?
(1-9,Terence) can assume with confidence that we have mapped the major...
(1-9,Terence) continest of reality, the shamens are still stretching...
(1-9,Terence) the envelope for the rest of us ga
(1-7,Rilla) Dean? Follow up?
(1-13,Dean) No follow up. Thanks Terence!
(1-13,Dean) ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran> GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, i like your opinion...
(1-1,mehran ariani) on a experience i had with
(1-1,mehran ariani) ...
(1-1,mehran ariani) extrect of belladona...
(1-1,mehran ariani) basically during my experience...
(1-1,mehran ariani) i had an encounter with an entity..
(1-1,mehran ariani) i asked if he is basically...
(1-1,mehran ariani) from my imagination and for...
(1-1,mehran ariani) proof he offered to give me...
(1-1,mehran ariani) a proof by foretelling an event...
(1-1,mehran ariani) that would take place the next day..
(1-1,mehran ariani) the event took place at exact time..
(1-1,mehran ariani) and place which tells me this...
(1-1,mehran ariani) is not just hallucination ...
(1-1,mehran ariani) can you tell me about thsi...
(1-1,mehran ariani) subject.ga
(1-9,Terence) Well it is true that some of the entities that...
(1-9,Terence) shamans and psychedelic trippers encounter...
(1-9,Terence) seem to have a different relationship to casuality..
(1-9,Terence) that we denizens of ordinary space/time...
(1-9,Terence) have. A shamen will tell you that this is not...
(1-9,Terence) a big deal but then a shaman doesn't ...
(1-9,Terence) realize how important to scientific rationalism...
(1-9,Terence) the ordinary casuality is. I believe your story,...
(1-9,Terence) I think that strange states of mind give us an...
(1-9,Terence) opportunity to see beyond the confines of ...
(1-25,Don D) ?
(1-9,Terence) cultural expectations into surreal world that is...
(1-9,Terence) somewhat in the process of being created even...
(1-9,Terence) as we look at it, like a dream, but a lving dream ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) no thank you terence.ga
(1-7,Rilla) Chris GA
(1-23,Leo) ?
(1-7,Rilla) Chris?
(1-18,Chris) Once you've been transformed by drugs or yoga...
(1-18,Chris) should you continue using a method, that may...
(1-18,Chris) bring no new experience...
(1-18,Chris) or result in attachment to the method...
(1-2,Rick B) ?
(1-18,Chris) rather than the experience itself. ga
(1-9,Terence) It is hard to imagine that one might ...
(1-9,Terence) exhaust the psychedelic experience, I have...
(1-9,Terence) the feeling when I am tripping that what I see...
(1-9,Terence) has never been seen before and will ...
(1-9,Terence) probably never be seen again. As for the question...
(1-9,Terence) of attachment, I suppose that is a problem...
(1-9,Terence) we are certain to become attached to any method...
(1-9,Terence) that works. The nice thing about plants and psychedelics...
(1-9,Terence) is that there is no beady eyed teacher attached who...
(1-9,Terence) is interested having you sweep up around the ashram...
(1-9,Terence) for a dozen years before he lets you in on the inner...
(1-9,Terence) slinny ga
(1-7,Rilla) Chris? Follow up?
(1-18,Chris) Yes...
(1-18,Chris) do you feel there is a difference...
(1-18,Chris) between natural and artificial drugs...
(1-18,Chris) and do you feel bio-technology will create new...
(1-18,Chris) drug or methods without side effects?
(1-18,Chris) ga
(1-9,Terence) I have sort of a sheldrakian approach to that...
(1-9,Terence) it seems to me that when we take a drug or a plant...
(1-9,Terence) that in some sense it takes us. In other words the...
(1-9,Terence) content of a given plant is made up of all the trips...
(1-9,Terence) of all the people who have ever taken it...
(1-9,Terence) it a drug is new it is in a sense empty and...
(1-9,Terence) it will take time for it to aquire the richness...
(1-9,Terence) of a susstance that has been used for thousands...
(1-19,Shadow Hawk) ?
(1-9,Terence) of years. In principle thought I expect modern...
(1-9,Terence) pharmacology to bring us very specific and exciting...
(1-9,Terence) compounds in the future. Almost certainly ga
(1-7,Rilla) Steve GA
(1-12,Steve Gorney) Hola Terence, have you found any historical data on...
(1-12,Steve Gorney) the relationship of dolphins to psychedelics...
(1-12,Steve Gorney) or "other dimensionalism"?... ga
(1-3,Terence) Not sure I understand the question. It is true...
(1-3,Terence) that dolphins occur in freshwater in only two...
(1-3,Terence) locations on the planet and that is the amazon and the Ganges..
(1-3,Terence) What that means I am not sure. Rgiht now there is alot of ...
(1-3,Terence) interest in extracting psychochemicals and other...
(1-3,Terence) interesting compounds from the life in the sea. But ...
(1-3,Terence) dolphins specifically, no ga
(1-7,Rilla) Steve follow up?
(1-12,Steve Gorney) No, thank you Terence, bye Aqyathought!
(1-7,Rilla) Okay...Don D you still here?
(1-2,Rick B) don left
(1-7,Rilla) Leo ga
(1-23,Leo) Hi guys!...offf of the dolphins, this might be a good lead in..
(1-23,Leo) to my 'special curiosities' for Terence... Terence off of what..
(1-23,Leo) you have written about the Voynich Manuscript, and off of...
(1-23,Leo) your notion about language being the 'basis of reality'...
(1-23,Leo) I was wondering if you had any notions on some of the crop of...
(1-23,Leo) current 'literature' that may be bleeding over from some of..
(1-23,Leo) those 'chattering, elf-infested spaces' you have spoken so..
(1-23,Leo) invitingly of... I know that Roger has done some work with..
(1-23,Leo) the Course in Miracles, and the Urantia Book comes to mind...
(1-23,Leo) as another example, and of course there seems to be much..
(1-23,Leo) 'interdimensional communication' occurring now on many fronts...
(1-23,Leo) ga..
(1-3,Terence) Well, there is certainly no shortage of voices from...
(1-3,Terence) the Other whispering and shouting for our attention...
(1-3,Terence) the problem seems to be that too many people claim...
(1-3,Terence) too iin depth a familiarity with these spaces. Whitley Strieberand ..
(1-3,Terence) the abductees for example. I am hppy to report that I only encounter...
(1-3,Terence) alinens with psychedelics and would be very alarmed...
(1-3,Terence) if things were to happen any differently. Sometimes people ask...
(1-3,Terence) if it possible to make these connections on the natch...
(1-3,Terence) My question is who would want to. Better to corral the little tykes within...
(1-3,Terence) the confines of a dependable emthod than have them running about at..
(1-3,Terence) unexpected and inappropriate moments. Nes Pa? ga
(1-7,Rilla) Leo? Follow up?
(1-23,Leo) I suppose this notion of 'dependable method' could lead into ...
(1-23,Leo) some sort of psychobotanical-fundamentalisms if we dont..
(1-23,Leo) watch out!... I think it was Stuart Brand who likened computers...
(1-23,Leo) (and information by implication) to the drugs of the 60s...
(1-23,Leo) saying that unlike the drugs of the 60s, with computers and...
(1-23,Leo) informtaion, there seemed to be no 'self-limiting' factor..
(1-23,Leo) which leads into some considerations of 'what is natural'...
(1-23,Leo) and/or dependable... my original lead-in from the dolphins..
(1-23,Leo) was from Timothy wyllie's 'Dolphins, ETs, and Angels' which ...
(1-23,Leo) relates Dolphins being sensitive to our con levels, prophecy...
(1-23,Leo) coming in in novel linguistic forms, etc... my only concern...
(1-23,Leo) re the speculation from Brand, is that if he's right, does this...
(1-23,Leo) mean that there will be an "war on info" like we've had a "war on..
(1-23,Leo) drugs"., all as we hurtle on toward 2012!! ga.
(1-3,Terence) Well, it seems to me that in fact the war on psychedelics is a...
(1-3,Terence) kind of war on information. After all the real impact of the psychedelics...
(1-3,Terence) is that they change peoples attitudes toward themselves and society...
(1-3,Terence) that is very subversive stuff. As for method of encontering elves and such...
(1-3,Terence) I think that we can be good old American ppragamatists in ...
(1-3,Terence) that domaine. It is a matter of using what works. if someone...
(1-3,Terence) is not sure that have had an alien encounter then the odds...
(1-3,Terence) are that they have not. ga
(1-7,Rilla) Rick GA
(1-2,Rick B) "And now for something completely different"...
(1-2,Rick B) What books are on your "nightstand" right now?
(1-2,Rick B) ga
(1-3,Terence) Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord is a great latin american novel that I just finished reading...
(1-3,Terence) I also like Steve Erickson's novel tours of the Black clock ga (1-7,Rilla) Rick? Follow up?(1-2,Rick B) Is ecstasy an artificial or natural substance?
(1-2,Rick B) ga
(1-3,Terence) Basically it is an artificial substance made by further elaboration ...
(1-3,Terence) of a molecules that does occur in nature...
(1-3,Terence) many modern drugs are near relatives of natural products ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran> GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, first for those intersted in ...
(1-1,mehran ariani) human-dolphin dialogue trough use of...
(1-1,mehran ariani) hallucinogens they should read john lilly's...
(1-1,mehran ariani) The Scientist, and now for my question...
(1-1,mehran ariani) after All the botany I have read i can not find...
(1-1,mehran ariani) the function of psychedelic substances in plants..
(1-1,mehran ariani) could you elaborate on that please.ga
(1-3,Terence) The honest answer is that no one is really sure...
(1-3,Terence) one school belives that psychedelics are attractancts for...
(1-3,Terence) pollenation, another school holds that they make the plant ...
(1-3,Terence) tast bad and so discourage predation. The facts are that a significant...
(1-3,Terence) portion of the plant's energy is goijng into the pr9oduction...
(1-3,Terence) and sequestering of these compounds so they must be doing something..
(1-3,Terence) the problem is that at this point, like so much about nature,
(1-3,Terence) we have no idea what is happening ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) yes...
(1-1,mehran ariani) is it concivebale that nature has provided us...
(1-1,mehran ariani) with a tool to communicate to higher or...
(1-1,mehran ariani) different dimensions (paralle universes?)...
(1-1,mehran ariani) through use of these plats.ga
(1-3,Terence) It is certainly possible. I don't think most people realize...
(1-3,Terence) how very literal the conversations with the mushroom are...
(1-3,Terence) what does it mean that a plant that present itself in...
(1-3,Terence) consciousness as a speaking voice? The skeptic feel free to dismiss such ...
(1-3,Terence) a phenomenon as only accessible to weak minds but thouse of us...
(1-3,Terence) who have done our homework know just how strange and real...
(1-3,Terence) this sort of thing can be ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay...
(1-7,Rilla) I have a question for you and then we will take...
(1-7,Rilla) one more...
(1-7,Rilla) I was interested in you comment earlier...
(1-7,Rilla) about the connection of Language...
(1-7,Rilla) to Reality...
(1-7,Rilla) are you speaking of language in the way...
(1-7,Rilla) that Bandler and Grinder describe it...
(1-7,Rilla) in the STRUCTURE OF LANGUAGE? GA
(1-4,Warren Schultz) send 10 oh right, him.
(1-3,Terence) I don't really know the NLP stuff well enough to compare my own...
(1-3,Terence) ideas to theirs. I think of language in the same way as it is..
(1-12,Steve Gorney) Kathi, I think I'll be in NY on the 13th!
(1-3,Terence) presented in Mishia Landaws book the Narrative Evolution...
(1-3,Terence) the idea there is that we tile over reality with words. So that...
(1-3,Terence) by the time we are three or four whatever mystery there was...
(1-3,Terence) for us in the world has been completely replaced by a local...
(1-3,Terence) vocabulary for all phenomena. This takes the wonder away from life...
(1-3,Terence) and leaves us the prisoners of our langue. This is not a good situation...
(1-3,Terence) for us to be as the original impluse for language was to take us...
(1-3,Terence) ointo a doman of yet greater freedom. ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) ?
(1-7,Rilla) Okay....thanks Terence...
(1-7,Rilla) mehran > GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, is there a way that we...
(1-1,mehran ariani) independent researchers can share or...
(1-1,mehran ariani) send our findings to you in future...
(1-1,mehran ariani) for me you are my Guru and I would...
(1-1,mehran ariani) like to share my findings with you.ga
(1-3,Terence) If you will send your address to roger clay via e mail he will see that...
(1-3,Terence) your are put in communication with me. Good luck ga
(1-7,Rilla) okay...
(1-7,Rilla) Thank you very much ,Terence...
(1-23,Leo) ?
(1-7,Rilla) this was a GREAT conference! ...
(1-7,Rilla) Leo... a quick one? We have to let these...
(1-7,Rilla) guys at their dinner. GA
(1-23,Leo) OK quick -- I get 'language as scaffolding" and to move on..
(1-23,Leo) to greater freedom, but what about language as naming..
(1-23,Leo) and sharing,, for example, so we know what is a..
(1-23,Leo) poisonous herb and iwll kill us, and which not..go
(1-23,Leo) ga, that is!
(1-3,Terence) Language is basically a behavior, it can be for communication...
(1-3,Terence) for information, or simply for enteratainment ga
(1-23,Leo) Thank you for yours Terence -- your cachet is intoxicating!
(1-8,Margaret) Enjoyed it Terence!Rilla! TY..my mind is stimulated.night all
(1-7,Rilla) Thanks again, Terence!
(1-7,Rilla) And thanks to Roger for setting this up...
(1-7,Rilla) and facilitating things on your end!
(1-3,Terence) It was a pleasure talking with you. Lets do this again sometime ga
(1-10,kathi rogers) clap, clap.